A Little Atlantis Meta or Beckett the Mad Scientist

[daughtershade]

So one of the things that jumped out to me in Instinct aside from the whole "Where do baby Wraith come from, mommy?" angle, which cricketk discusses HERE, is the retro virus business. (There's also a little something cool I noticed about Ronon so I've included a screencap by queenshroom to illustrate.)



So Carson is making a retro virus that turns Wraith into humans. While this is all very cool and sci-fi... I have to stop and wonder if that's even a good idea. Despite the whole problem of getting the virus to work, what the hell is Carson thinking? I mean, can you imagine the psychological repercussions of a humanized Wraith? Would it change anything? It's a monster that has been killing for years (possibly centuries since they live a long time). Do they expect making it human will suddenly change its attitude about humans? And if he/she magically does feel sorry for all those people it ate, then likely he/she wouldn't be able to function under the guilt. I mean at least on SG-1 when they de-Goa'uld someone, the person can say 'well it was the symbiote that did all those horrible things, not me.' The de-Wraithed person has no such option. The more I think about it, the more troublesome the idea becomes. Is a retro-virus even viable on a large scale? Is it contagious? Will it spread to other Wraith? If so, aren't the Wraith advanced enough to contain the outbreak, if not find a cure for it?

Basically, my point is that this retro-virus business raises more questions than it answers. Mostly about Carson. He seems like such a wonderfully sweet and heartfelt man, until you get him in a lab then it's all fly by night genetic manipulation and crazy schemes. I think, secretly, he's more a Mad Scientist than McKay will ever be, mostly because it comes from a good place of wanting to help people. And that's more creepy and twisted, by far. I really want to see an Evil AU now where Carson is some kind of Mengele. I could so see it. Plus, I think Paul would have fun being a villain... and he'd look really hot in a black leather gestapo uniform, just sayin'.

I'm curious as to what other people think about this.

Now, I'll step away from all that serious business and add a little shallow to clean your palate.

Has anyone noticed that Ronon's sword handle is wrapped in Wraith hair? He totally takes trophies. Look at that braid hanging down! Isn't that just cool as hell? He's such a pimp daddy.

Comments

[mice1900.livejournal.com]

I think Carson is, quite honestly, doing his damnedest to find the solution that causes the least loss of life -- even Wraith life. He's trying to change them rather than simply wipe out an entire species. Whether or not this is misguided is another issue. He's working from compassion here and trying to prevent a genocide, even though pretty much anybody sane in the Pegasus galaxy would love to see the last Wraith flushed down the cosmic toilet.

I've seen several people commenting on this since Instinct. I could see an AU Evil!Carson, sure, but our Carson? Not even ;) He's a man in a very bad situation looking for a humane solution. It was in no way his fault that the Wraithchickie (tm) got her claws on the retrovirus. It's also not like he was talking about experimenting on her. He only wanted to work with blood and tissue samples. I don't understand the reaction in the fandom, and how folks are going on about how Carson's somehow changed drastically.

Sure, he's excited about the theory. Honestly -- who wouldn't be? A way to get rid of the Wraith for good, and not have to kill millions to do it? Sounds like a good plan. Whether or not it works isn't the issue here. The issue is that Carson's attempting to do something compassionate when he could be working on something like that Hoffan serum that killed the Wraith. Now *that* would be the act of an Evil Mad Scientist.

[daughtershade.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't think our Carson is bad, far from it. And I totally agree with your reasoning for Carson that he's just trying to save lives. That's fine. I just don't think this is a viable solution. It causes more problems than it creates.

I think that's one of the cool things about Atlantis so far is that they keep coming across these moral lines that they have to cross. Much like in Poisoning the Well, they had to choose to experiment on the Wraith. And it's even more interesting to see people like Carson and Elizabeth being the ones that have to cross these lines. John being military has less of a problem with it. Rodney, well, I think deep down Rodney cares, but if it brings him closer to his need to satisfy his scientific curiosity, he can deal with it. It's the heartfelt ones that crossing those lines really affects. We've seen how Elizabeth has had to deal with it, and I think it's time to see Carson deal with consequences as well. Mostly because I like him way more than I like Elizabeth and I think it would be a good acting challenge for Paul, who, unfortunately, is usually either given comic relief or exposition.

I'm just hoping that they actually deal with the retro virus issues that I brought up instead of a year or so down the road making it their magic cure all, much like the Tok'ra were to Goa'ulded people in SG-1.

[daisylou22.livejournal.com]

It seems interesting to me how the moral compass bends a bit out in the Pegasus Galaxy, well intentioned or not. I think Carson's intentions are good, he wants to find a way to defeat the wraith -- and what better method than to turn them into humans? The road to that result, however, will be a dark and twisted one, that's for certain.

[daughtershade.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't doubt he's doing his best to defend against the Wraith, but if you think about it, is the retro virus really that helpful? I mean are 100,000 angry Wraith that want to eat you really worse than 100,000 angry humans who used to be Wraith that want to kill you for what you've done to them? Somehow, I doubt it. ;D

[sithdragn.livejournal.com]

Here via sga_newsletter. First, Yay!! Someone talking Carson!

I think Carson is very morally torn over his part in the Wraith situation. For Carson, the ends do not justify the means. It goes back to Poisoning the Well, where he's obviously torn over his involvement with the Hoffman and their "cure" for the Wraith. He was hesitant every step of the way once he learned the intent of the final phase of the drug, and in the end, he took his involvement very personally. Fast forward to Duet and the ambiguous scene with the downed dart and how he approached the injured Wraith. He offered help to the Wraith and later told Sheppard that he'd done so so that the Wraith might help them recover McKay and Cadman. I'm not sure I buy that completely in that he'd completely lowered his gun and was stepping slowly toward the Wraith. Carson, sweetie, no.

I think his instinct to help takes over. There's a part of Carson's brain that instinct rules, and I agree, it could (and possibly has) caused him to make some scary judgements.

Long exposition short, I agree with you to a degree. *g* I think Carson could be wrapped up in his need to make things better, but I also think he's self-aware enough to realize his potential harm before it's too late, as opposed to, say, Rodney in Trinity.

Without spoiling, I've read enough to believe there will be answers to all of your questions regarding the effects of Carson's retrovi later this season.

I think Paul would have fun being a villain... and he'd look really hot in a black leather gestapo uniform

::so ded::

Has anyone noticed that Ronon's sword handle is wrapped in Wraith hair?

Ayup. And the grip of his gun, too.

[daughtershade.livejournal.com]

Long exposition short, I agree with you to a degree. *g* I think Carson could be wrapped up in his need to make things better, but I also think he's self-aware enough to realize his potential harm before it's too late, as opposed to, say, Rodney in Trinity.

You know, that would be an interesting arc for him. If he were to say become single minded about something (like say the retrovirus) that he thought was going to save everyone and slowly come to realize that no, it's going to make things worse, and then have him see that he's become just as fanatical as the Hoffans, and THEN pull back from it unlike Rodney who wages forward on ego and assurance that he's right.

Hmm... interesting thought. :D

[saeva.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'd be very surprised if Carson didn't suspect that the Wraith had as complex a system as a digestive one -- which has many organs and functions attached to it -- because they, at some point in their life, needed it.

The most reasonable from there is early childhood, much like small animals (and technically humans, but we ignore this) develop and lose the proteins necessary to process certain types of food all the time. What's healthy for a kitten (milk) can be very sickening to an adult cat because of this. This actually happens in human children as well, when after bottle weaning they aren't given milk and dairy products often -- they develop a lactose intolerance (it's not the only reason for LI but it's a major one if the intolerance isn't evidenced from near birth).

So, the vaccine, so to speak, might very well have been designed for Wraith children, under the presumption that his theory at least made sense given the evidence. That leads to other ethical questions -- what right do they have to take Wraith children away from their parents, etc -- but less dangerous ones overall.

Additionally, the human body isn't designed for cannibalism on a regular schedule (as in, cannibalism is viable -- many a tribe in the past as proven that -- but not as a main stable of a diet), so if the Wraith were stripped of what enables them to process human substance they would be forced to change or die out. Somehow I doubt Carson sees dying out as a particularly impossible to live with consequence.

That's actually one of the weirdest maligns I've seen of Carson because the incident with the Hoff aside, which was the lost of human life by their own hands on a wide scale when, if given time, they could have feasibly came up with a better formula, Carson's moral compass is pretty strongly set to "as necessary".

Take the Wraith incident in 'Duet', which I often seen commented on as an example of his heart when what Carson said was that he was willing to offer assistance in exchange for information. "We could have got something out of him" essentially. That isn't out of the goodness of his heart, that's out of wanting to save his friends/workmates with the least amount of complications possible.

It's not the only incident where Carson acts that way or ignores the safer option for the more, hopefully useful one to their aims. He tests the ATA synthetic on Rodney despite the fact it's not really ready -- by his own admission -- for human testing. There's also the Hoff, but the ATA thing is significant because he apparently gave it out to the entire non-ATA gened population, any one of which might have had a very negative reaction to it and his primary "testing" of it was not just on humans but on the members of the expedition, his coworkers and in at least some cases friends.

So. Yeah. I totally don't get the view of Carson as a Morally Upstanding, Sensitive Man. He's willing to do a lot in the pursuit of knowledge and information they can use. At least as much as Rodney, though maybe not as obviously. But then, if a population had a type of root they desperately need the extract of to synthetize a drug they need and that population wasn't wiling to trade it wouldn't be up to him whether they went in and took that root -- it'd be Elizabeth's call.

- Andrea.

[daughtershade.livejournal.com]

See, all these examples are what I was thinking of in the back of my mind as I thought about Carson and the retrovirus. Yes, I know he's a nice man, but he could so easily cross that line for perfectly good intentions. Just as you pointed out. Any of them could, really, being under the pressure and stress of surviving in the Pegasus Galaxy.

And something else you said rings true to me too. Yes, in some instances it is Elizabeth's call. Which makes me think that for all his strengths, Carson just isn't really a leader. When you get him outside of his own medical expertise (flying jumpers, playing commando, helping the Athosians prepare for the storm) he is just lost usually. This season he's gotten better, but really his strengths are in his own field. So even if he did turn to the dark side as it were, he'd need someone else to guide him I think. He's not really the dictator type. Which is why I easily see a dark AU where Rodney is the bad guy and has brought Carson over to his side. Which I'm sure would surprise a lot of Carson fans, but not me.

[noorie.livejournal.com]

heya, here via sga_newsletter. interesting post (carson!!!), your thoughts about the de-wraithed reminded me a bit of re-souled angel and spike. and uh, your layout takes my breath away...

[daughtershade.livejournal.com]

Hello! Cool icon!

Hm... interesting thought. I was a Spander fan before I really got into Stargate heavily. I wonder if that was in the back of my mind and I hadn't thought of it.

uh, your layout takes my breath away...

Oh thanks. I just changed it recently. I'm not that fond of it myself, I'll probably come up with a new one soon.